Are we a better team with just one striker upfront?
Posted on: Mon, 2008-08-18 10:45
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Are we a better team with just one striker upfront?
I'm starting to wonder whether it wouldn't have been better if we had stuck with 4-2-3-1 system... all experts says you never change a winnig team, but i'll also say you better not change a winnig formation.
Is the 4-4-2 with keane-torres giving the desired result, i doubt so.. both of them were running for the same ball at times during the sunderland match, keane blocked a torres goal, when keane was upfrot torres he lacked the pace and wasted clear opportunity of counter-attack.
We should not go hysteric or start getting worried after just 2 match, but still i believe once mascherao is back we should revert to the old system and playing keane on the right in the place of kuyt.
Was keane really such a necessity?? I think Barry should have been our first buy, considering he is better pair for gerrard, and that mascherano is out for olympics... Unfortunately Prick parry messed it up all :(
As for Plessis, this guys need to be sent on loan to gain some experience, he lacks the football skills and still has lots to learn.. was doing jogging on the pitch in the first half at sunderland.. only after he was replaced by Alonso we gained the battle of midfield.
Rafa made it clear why he want Barry, and think that he is a necessity, he'll be covering the left side completely allowing our fullback to go forward, he'll be doing the sweeping job if ever mascherano is unavailable..hope the manager is given his target and can go to claim the long awaited title.
i did state this in 1 of my write ups abt the match i also did see when torres was going 4 the goal that keane got in his way yet again r we ever going 2 get any better?? or is this wot we have 2 put up with???
kmon..GIVE ME A BREAK...
keane is an awesome player...
ya torres n keane got each other's way...it doesnt prove he cant play along wid torres up front...
keane and torres upfrnt...wid STEVIE G just behind them......
Robbie keane completly crap and an utter waste of 20m
Rafa you muppet get someone decent who isn't terrible and over 100 years old
I said last week that Keane was absolutely shite against Middlesborough and again at Villa Park. We already had on the staff players who can play as well as him. He will need to do something exceptional for me to make me change my mind. He has had about eight (?) games now with his team mates, and as I said looks absolutely a waste of money. It's ok to say you have been a lifelong Liverpool fan (as Bellamy also did, and look what sort of return we got from him!!) but the bottom line is Keane is being paid big money to score. Yes, I know Torres and Crouch took some time to get underway and playing alonside Torres must be daunting, but Keane has been around the traps long enough. We do not need another expensive dud.
give the guy a chance,all the team our not match fit yet. keane will come good,as for who is the better buy well torres needed help up front, now he has got it,just give them time to gel.barry is a good player and i hope we get him but we have loads of midfield players at the club allready. my chice would be for a winger instead of barry. i reckon 18 mil credit crunch, would get quasmera who we need more than barry. you answerd your own question rafa wants him because he plays diffrent postions. yea you guessed it rafa will play him fullback, centre half every were except in the middle were he is at his best. with quasmera this would not be a problem, as he is only a winger.
There is a case for Liverpool playing One up front, I personally prefer to see us with Two, I have no doubts that Keane will come good he just needs a bit of time. Rouman re we have lots of midfielders at the club, yes we have but how many of them are any good ? Two is my answer , Gerrard and Mascherano, the rest are totally inconsistant, that is why we need Gareth Barry. I agree we need a wide player as well but I'd be suprised if we get Queresma as he would cost us even more than Barry, as for Reirra well who is the better value Barry at 18m or Reira at 16m ? no contest on that one Barry by a mile.
im not saying keane is no good i am just saying that both torres & keane havnt paired up yet properly i will give him time 2 adjust 2 that .like every new player they need 2 settle in 1st 2 get 2 know what the other player is saying with they feet if u know what i mean loli hope we do get barry but thats another story 2 tell
ynwa
Why don't we play 4-4-2 at home then when opponents comes to defend and 4-2-3-1 when away, coz the other team has support from there fans and a tendency to keep attacking us.
Thats what happened against liege and sunderland.. we were away, they were just attacking, we came in control after we reverted to 4-2-3-1.
I bet we'll have a superb performance agaist Boro with 4-4-2 with Torres and keane upfront.
But still am sad we've not yet got barry, he would have been a tremedous add up to the moral of our manager and captain as well as bringig balance to the team.
Keane is not a left winger; so why was he there today against Villa? if we needed someone to go on the left and were prepared to pay that kind of money why not just get Barry and save the messing about , or get someone else in his place? Keane should be deployed upfront where we might get some goals for the money we paid for him
Keane - Kuyt, both starts with "K"
Keane - kuyt, one cost 20 million, the other cost 10 million
Keane - kuyt, both were strikers but now plays on the wings
Keane - kuyt, both of them whenever they got a ball in the box most of the time either send it straight on the keeper or up in the air
Keane - Kuyt, both of them look to be like workhorses
Keane - kuyt, both of them are being paid to score, but does that job only once in a blue moon.
Keane - kuyt, they are just blocking the place of prolific first team players like Babel, Nemeth, Pacheco, El zhar...
And Tony, thats the consequence of "i asked for a sofa, they bought me a lampshade", Rafa's main target was a left footed player, Barry, yet our Chief executive Prick Parry instead tried to be more smart, and brought Keane for an enormous sum of money, so now rafa is trying to sit on the lampshade by playing him on the wings. Keane was played upfront in the saturday match, BUT what does he do when he gets a clear occasion 1 meter ahead of the last defender.. he wait for him to come and shoot pigeons!! Last 5 games he's been playing upfront, has he been better, NOOOO!!
May be we'll have to wait 5 months to see him start scoring like we waited for crouch. May be he forgot his boots at totenham. What was Parry thinking when he paid such a sum of money for such a player, when they said barry is too old to pay 18 million for him, is keane younger than barry?
An arab group has taken over at man city the owner is richer than abramovich and we are fucking stuck with yank owners that runs our club on a shoe string! its a fucking farce! we have to settle for tesco brand players whilst the likes of spurs,mancity,sunderland spend big its a pathetic situation we are in and its only goin 2 get even worse! it makes me sick 2 the stomach that since the fucking yanks has taken over they have done NOTHING WHAT SO EVER TO HELP OUR CLUB! they are a disgrace i cant believe this is happening to our club parry needs shooting 4 what he's done the prick, anyone other than the yanks had taken over parry would of been out of a job so he sold his soul 2 the devil to save his job the PRICK the longer those 3 clowns are here the worse we are going to get DIC may not even save us now!!!
Look I know Robbie Keane has not got off to the greatest of starts, but we are not playing to his strenghs, Robbie Keane does his best work in the penalty area and in the Six yard box. We keep playing long balls up to him , no crosses into the box and seem to be bypassing him . Also Rafa playing him out on the wing is utterly ridiculous, it's a bit like playing Torres at full back. Keane is a good player were just not playing to his strenghs, get the ball to him around the edge of the area or lay the ball to him inside the Six yard box and we will soon see the goals .
Not sure when site got changed, just trying get up to speed with it, bit confussed at min tony, however sure we all settle in with it as the same with last,
Anyway, Riera, jesus christ, someone b4 criticalmind i think said cant judge youtube players, well i hope your rightmate as his best of comp is CRAP. IF thats the best then god knows what we buying, i all for giving someone a chance yes BUT thats what you do with kids, when you spend close on 10million your meant to buy tested players of quality, jesus Kompany went for 5mil to man city, that the type of money i would except for this guy as if fails no worries but 10million or nearly with add ons, crazy,
I have seen him play few times, not live but on La Liga on sky and (spanish cable channel illegal broadcasts) this guy isnt all that, dont be expecting him to change our season, in fact i not excited at all, love him prove me wrong, come here and be a hit, but its against him, he isnt quick, doesnt score many goals, and aint great in the air,
Yes he has a genuine LEFT foot, something missing from our current squad, but so did kewell, !!!!! This could be rafas worst buy of his reign on money value for return.
I believe this is a quick panic buy to solve our situation, but lot of money wasted if it is and be in same boat next season with the money wasted.
Quaresma gone to Inter Milan this morning reportedly so hey lost out there, granted he went for around 13mil sterling, 18m euros plus player but goes to show you we are paying alot for a player who is nowhere near the standard we need.
Kev j your right, mancity are prob richer than us at the min, and we are sinking quickly, if they strengthen again over the jan window we could be looking at our top four place being concided to them or A/Villa. I believe we are a better team still at the min however if this new rule about homegrown players comes in albeit a water down version we are in deep trouble, carra/gerrard/youngsters aside we got nothing compared to chelsea/manure/mancity/villa all who we are in the top 6 bracket with now arsenal will qualify with their youth system.
There must be a buyout soon of these fools, they must know they are unwanted unliked and total out of their depth, Parry must go to and if need be put the stadium on hold until we are settled on the pitch,
Why is it Benitez sets the side up to play so negatively ? We have some very good attacking players yet Rafa seems to squeeze every positive ,attacking, forward thinking ideas from there game ? players like Babel , Leiva, Bennyoun, all have attacking strenghs, yet they seem scared to express them on the pitch. I'm all for a solid defence, and theres nothing wrong with a holding midfielder ( especially when you have the best in the world in Mascherano ) but we are so bloody negative it's untrue. That and playing players out of position is allmost pissing me off as much as Rafa's rotation did last Season. God I'd love to have Five minutes of Rafa's time to put the world to rights, because the guy is the most frustrating, negative, stubbourn manager of all time. Is he blind or just plain stupid ? or are we the only ones that can see where the team he puts out is wrong . Playing Kuyt on the wing is like us starting with Ten men, playing players out of position, is weakening the team.nullifying our chances.
BENITEZ NEEDS TO WAKE UP AND NEEDS A KICK UP THE ARSE FOR BEING SUCH AN IDIOT.WHY IS IT HE AND OUR COACHING STAFF CANNOT SEE WHAT ALL OF US CAN ? PLAY BABEL OUT RIGHT IN PLACE OF KUYT, CUT OUT ALL THIS SQUARE PASSING AND BACKPASSING SHIT IN MIDFIELD , AND PLAY SOME ATTACK MINDED FOOTBALL. WE SHOULD INSTALL BEDS IN THE CORPORATE BOXES WERE SO FUCKING BORING . ANYONE WITH SLEEPING PROBLEMS NEED TO FOLLOW LIVERPOOL THIS SEASON AS THE WAY WE PLAY IS THE PERFECT CURE FOR INSOMNIA.
I made a comment about the stadium, just to confirm why, - even if we build now we wont get the benifits of extra income for another 3 yrs yet, by then we could find ourselves out of the top 4 lying 6th to villa and mancity if we continue the way we going, we have a decent team however without being able to strenghten we are screwed. Gerrard will be 30 and carra 33 by the time the new stadium is built (if we started now). keane will be finished as i dont see him being here longer than 3 yrs - 4yrs (doing anything worthwhile) and if honest one or two of the spainish lads will have moved on, where are we left then, huge staduim, no silverware of note since 2005 (6yrs ago by time of completion) with a team in need of money to replace our best players, in a financial position not to be able to.
Stadium must go on hold if no money we cant expect to have it without having things on the field soughted first. Interest,investment,backing,sponsorship,extra revenue,shirt deals, etc etc etc comes from one thing success. we living at the min of past glories and why that ok for now, 3 yrs time it be gone again and we be back to wondering who will bails us out. Manure are YES ARE going to take our crown of most succesful club in country by then, if not europe, they will win another euro trophy by 3yrs time and our kudos hsd gone then.
Team first, stadium last
Owners out however not possible as no investment, which confusses me as if mancity are being bought out then surely D.I.C wont take to long to come around again
Parry gone but only if someone is in line to replace him in the summer as we need stability, maybe Brian Barwick, big lfc fan from the area, well qualified and putting england aside, he is one of us, with good connections to
Stulivered the stadium is on hold, it will never get built in the time Hicks & Gillet are in charge for the simple reason they cannot afford to build it. IT IS JUST A PIPE DREAM.
The only way the stadium will get built is if someone like DIC come in 400m is loose change to them, you are right in what you say about our team getting older , 100m investment in quality players is also needed , Hicks & Gillet just havn't got that type of money, mark my words they will not own this club next Season, and as for that other PRICK Parry the sooner we get rid of him the better, I wouldnt let him run my sons train set.
Yeah mate i agree about parry, i am aware the stadium is on hold i was just speaking in terms of fans wanting it to be built or complaining about it not being built, myself includeded in that bracket, outlining the facts that 1st and foremost is the team regardless of those who say future planning is good planning, i recently changed my mind, thought it through and realised that it be great for the club but bad for the team if we pump money into this stadium adventure at the minute.
Just out of the shower, and whilst in there for 15 minutes i realised something that rafa hasnt managed yet, WIDTH WINS YOU GAMES, took me minutes to realise that Chavski and Manure have cole,botswinga,cole - ronaldo,nani,evra,tevez all who quality and can give width to their team, how can someone like me realise this in that time and rafa not? You talk about our spine quite alot eddie, and whilst you are bang on, you also show our failings by doing so, carra,sktel,agger,gerrard,mascherano,alonso,torres - all centre park players, and i not talking about the holiday place, we got no quality wide, we make do with asking others to do that job, if i criticise rafa its over his ability to not get that problem soughted, he should of done so before buying robbie keane, who i add has to be given time, but 19mil on him would of bought quaresma as shown by him moving for that today, plus freed babel play upfront with fernando, anyway the league results arent a nightmare so far, however if stevie and torres dont recover in time for manure in 2 wks we in cant expect to get anything from that game, if they do and we click we could be 6 points clear of them by then with only 34games to go, you never know lol, lol,
We have signed this guy on a free according to SSNEWS he's a brazilian striker and 18yr old more unproven shit! he sounds like a tub of margarine to me! i get so fucking frustrated with rafa and his scouting staff what the FUCK are they doing buying a player like this, i think this will be our worse season under benitez the sooner he goes the better 4 me we need a new man with new idea's coz rafa doesnt seem 2 have a clue when me,rouman,eddie,criticalmind,1red1pool,julie,stulivered etc etc see the problems but clueless rafa doesnt isnt it sammy lee's job 2 give some input 2 rafa coz by the looks of things he hasnt done yet i liked the sofa one eddie in liverpool's box that was a good un im not so confident bout this season guys? i reckon we should put in a bid 4 owen coz a bid of £5m will get him, according to the rumours the blue noses are tracking him aswell i dont think owen is that desperate to down grade just yet!
youngster, going straight into the reserves by reports, prob wont emerge until 2 seasons from now, cost nothing and Gary ablett proberly did most of the tying up of the deal, so i wouldnt worry to much about him Kev, I would like see Pacheco again maybe against Stoke at home after Manure but it appears he hasnt been given a squad number? not sure if this affects his eligability to play this game any answers? Him and David Ngog should be on the bench and given a run out if we are up 2 nil or so 20mins to go, be good experience for them and if we have everyone fit for that match i doubt it be a risk filling the bench with them as our first team should or better have enough to beat them, giving torres and gerrard a rest as we got Toffees/PSV/Mancity in quick concession afterwards.
You are right about the Stoke game strategy, but what about Nemeth? For me he is far better than Ngog or Pacheco, yet he has not even featured in reserves for this season.. will he be sent to leeds on loan? Hope not. His form was superb in preseason, won us a penalty, set up a goal for benayoun and was very dangerous in opponents box. Hope our team gets better after the break.
Your 100% right criticalmind Nemeth is 100 times better than Ngog , he is the most exciting player we have in our reserves , and yet Rafa remains blind to that fact. Nemeth is better than Kuyt Pennant Ngog and Bennyoun put together, he has an eye for goal, has the ability to beat a man, and has flair and skill well beyond his years. All things Benitez dislikes in a player, Benitez would prefer to look at his workrate, his ability to defend and run like a headless chicken .NO WONDER HE ISNT GIVEN A CHANCE.
As the likes of spurs,mancity,sunderland etc etc are buy players for 10m+ rafa goes out and picks up an18yr old tub of FLORA! and riera its just a complete utter joke! we have to be the biggest laughing stock in the PL! im so embarassed by the club i wont wear my top out doors! and as for the scouting team only those useless fcukers can find clover or what ever his name is as criticalmind says that stadium that flora was playing in was fucking empty maybe it was just our scouts there watching him take a look on you tube its laughable im so depressed 2 see the way our club is being run if only gillett would sell his share to DIC.
Hate to say it, never thought i would, but i agree, only yesterday speaking to people, i said we are now officially a laughing stock, as a name/club/team etc we have sunk to the levels of Spurs 3yrs ago, Chelsea 3yrs ago, Newcastle 3 months ago and Aston villa 3yrs ago,
Notice anything there, ??????/ all those clubs got there act together maybe with the exception of the magpies and are on the up, our heels right now, we in turn are on the downslope and about near their level, we have better players in some areas but we not in all. we dont play as well going forward as spurs, or villa at the minute. we are really in a tight spot and i worried our name is being soiled by these owners, read article in independant (not your kneejerk tabloids) which stated Liverpool are now facing a crisis which they have never b4 and are not equiped to deal with to bring our good name out of it. Not a direct quote but along those lines,
All we can do is close ranks, back rafa, hope stevie torres stay fit and PRAY, until we get time in summer to bring this crisis around, cant believe 3 games into the season after all our hopes and hypes, i am praying for just stablilty to the end of the season already.
Criticalmind said it I asked for a sofa and got a lightshade, now Rafa asked for butter and got a tub of margerine. Liverpool FC is a comedy act. We have Laurel and Hardy as our owners, Prick Parry is as bright as Imspector Clouseau and Benitez is like Mr Magoo blind , Man Utd Chelsea and Arsenal fans must be laughing there fucking heads off.
You are spot on regarding no width, but we do have players that could fill the role, Anderson is out on loan, El Zhar has done little wrong and shown promise, Insua could do a job on the left, evan Pennant is capable of doing a job on the right.
We should have bought Queresma at 15m that was a signing worth making, Wright Phillips at 7m was another prospect, I hope I'm wrong but Reirra doesn't look anything special so why pay 8m for him, is he significantly better than what weve got ? I soubt it.
Nemeth should also be included i agree, just aware of not wanting to fill bench so much with youth in case of failures against Stoke, but i agree he should be given a run out very soon to shown rafa we have options of resting the big boys matches, but i dont want a return to last season when we rested them from the start for lots of games, and henched dropped points that was a joke, we need to rest after we are winning matches, even insua should be there and given run out if we up by 2 or so. its about winning games first then trying the young lads, rafa should no this,
As for wide players we already have, i like look of El Zhar eddie however you said it mate, "Players who could fill the role" we need wide men to take us on to the next level who will do more than that, however i agree with you and will say this, i can be judged at the end of the season for talking shit if want to but -
RIERA WILL NOT DO ANY BETTER THAN WHAT EL ZHAR COULD DO THIS SEASON,
I will stake my name on that, rafa will have wasted 10million pounds on a player that we have as an equal in the reserves in El Zhar, in fact El Zhar would have more commitment and passion to succeed as he will be proving himself, he will make mistakes give the ball away but will keep going and trying running at defenders all the time as kids to when they full of energy, that will drive the others on, babel can give us stability against the big boys wide left so we i just dont get wasting 10million on Riera, really dont,
hope i wrong but cant see it lads.
yesterday's match was an utter joke midfield was getting into their own way running into each other god knows what evry1 else was doing we could av lost that game 3 maybe 4-0 mostly we were playing rugby again doesnt any of them know where the back of the net is???? now its time 2 kick every players arse RAFA WHAT THE FACK RU DOING???these usa freaks need 2 fack off & take parry with them i am so p...ed off now .WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON WITH OUR ONCE FAMOUS UNBEATEN TEAM????
In the past I have said Rafa's transfer recold has been 50/50, however having seen some of the dross bought this summer I have come to the conclusion he's recold is in fact extremely poor. For every success story there are Four or Five failures.
Just look at this list of failures Moreites, Nunez, Zenden, Voronin, Josebi, Sissoko, Kuyt, Pennant, Ngog, Degan, Gonzalez, Bellamy, and question how they ever got to wear the famous red shirt ?
Then consider the number of missfits still at our club,- Kuyt , Voronin, Pennant, Aurelio, Alonso, Degan, Ngog, add others that are questionable like Arbeloa, Dossena and Keane, then answer this question would you give Rafa Benitez 50m of your money to go out and buy players with ?.
Liverpool FC has become a dumping ground for players of no skill , no flair and no ability, the only things you need to get in our team is an ability to work hard ,defend stoutly, and run around like a headless chicken, preferably in a position that you have never played in before. Really makes you wonder doesnt it ?
Your right in ur assesment of rafa and his signings eddie the only good one's is torres,reina,agger,skrtel & maybe babel but apart from that who has been good signings ur right ed we have become a dumping ground 4 useless players and its continuing with the likely signing of riera and that flora (he may go into reserves tho) your question to giving rafa 50m ed to spend on players NO WAY ON EARTH not the way he spends the money well he's proved he buys duds morientes,nunez,kromkamp,gonzalez,bellamy,kuyt,pennant,voronin,josemi,zenden the list goes on and on eddie im confident this will be rafa's last season at liverpool coz lets face it he will never win us the EPL will he? not the way we play its so negative and boring and sleep inducing its unbelievable lets hope we play better after the 2 wk break then again why break a habit of a life time!
what about mashcerano,alonso,arbeloa,garcia,el zahr... and most of those "duds" we still made money on and who exactly do you want instead of benitez?
ngog is under 20, only costed 1.5 mil and has scored around 2 goals in 4 games and ur allready calling him a flop?! degan has played 1 game and was free and probably brought incase arbeloa or finnan(who has allready) leaving and keane and dossena have only played about 6 games!!! it took torres around 5 games to score and i bet u were also calling him a flop!!! and what about benitez's youth and reserve teams who have won the cup 2 years running and the league!!
Ngog might only be Twenty and I may be a bit harsh having a go at him, but many a player has been his age and younger and shone brightly from day one , Micheal Owen and Stevie G at Liverpool , Arsehole Rooney at Everton Fabragas at Arsenal Scholes Ronaldo Gidggs at United, if your good enough your old enough. From what Ive seen of Ngog and Degan neither appear that great. Equally our new signing Reira doesnt evan look good on You Tube which is worrying.
Re your point that Rafa has bought some good players yes he has Reinna, Agger Skrtel Mascherano Torres but he has spent pretty close to 200m , have we had 200m worth of quality , evan you have got to concede the answer is no, he has bought far to many ordinary and less than ordinary players, to win the Premiership you need top quality throughout the team and on the bench, we have 5 top quality players Reinna Carragher Stevie G Mascherano and Torres, we have other good players in Skrtel Agger and to a lesser degree Babel, the others are Crap. There are some good youngsters at the club Insua Nemeth Spearing Darby tp name but a few but dross like Degan Pennant Bennyoun Alonso and Kuyt prevent them from getting in the side, Rafa rarely gives youth a chance. Thats my reasons for questioning Rafa Benitez's ability to manage, last Season I was calling for his head, nothing Ive seen so far this Season gives me reason to change my mind, tacticlly he is defensive, he constantly tinkers with the team and keeps playing players out of position. Rather than get the best out of players he ofton has the opposite efect. We stand no chance of winning the Premiership playing the way we are., we played good football towards the end of last season playing with just one player up front, Rafa should have kept with a winning formula but the tinkerman cannot stop tinkering as a result we are now playing worse than ever before.
KEVJ at least we got rid of one donkey today, Voronin , an absolute waste of space he came on a freebie but wasnt even worth his airfare ( and I wouldnt mind he flew Easyjet £29 one way) .
When will Rafa ever learn theres no such thing as a free lunch, every free transfer signing he has made have been utterly useless. Where are our scouting team finding such players are they trawling the Girlie Bars or what ? you would be hard pressed to find such garbage down the local park.
Dont be so fucking silly kevj , Micheal doesnt know how to play on the wing ?, perhaps he could drop back into midfield or even Full Back though, your also forgeting that Micheal has skill and ability he also likes to attack, three qualities that Rafa hates in a player.
What we really need at the club is Ten Dirk Kuyts, just imagine that scenario, 10 Dirks running around like headless chickens , surely a recipe for success, 10 duracells running around clueless , imagine how excited Rafa would be, I wonder how many shots on target we would have ?
Just remember kevj Dirks the man, Hail the Kirk, a footballing genius.
Albert Reirra has signed for Four years - lets hope he does better than he does on You Tube, he must be the only player that youtube fail to make look good. Personally I reckon we have just wasted 10m.
We are in need of another striker seeing as news of that torres is going to be out for 3 wks we need owen he would cost next to nothing if we cant do that then we are in desperate dire fiancial difficulty he would only cost around 2-5m tops its worth the gamble he's loved at liverpool who else we got apart from keane? voronin dont count coz he's shit anyway elzahr aint got experience nor has ngog nemeth hasnt been given a squad number rafa isnt goin 2 take pacheco out from the reserves either so we need another striker what u think guys? i also agree with u eddie that we have wasted 10m+ on riera i would of prefered petrov from man city.
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